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13
Robert Brunner
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Why This Episode Matters
Robert Brunner has shaped more iconic products than almost anyone alive—from building Apple's legendary design team (where he hired Jony Ive) to creating Beats by Dre, which sold to Apple for $3 billion.
In this conversation, he reveals the philosophy that separates good design from cultural phenomena: unwavering commitment, strategic risk-taking, and treating every project as a partnership, not a transaction.
For leaders building the next generation of premium products, this is a masterclass in turning creative vision into market dominance.
Key Takeaways
Great design requires ownership, not service
Brunner shifted from hourly billing to equity partnerships—treating his studio as an investment vehicle, not a vendor. The result: billions in value creation.
Build the environment before the team
His first move at Apple wasn't hiring designers—it was secretly securing a new building because "you can't recruit world-class talent into a sea of beige cubicles."
Fear isn't the absence of courage—it's the test
"Confident people still have fear. They understand it and don't let it rule their trajectory." Push through the discomfort or stay mediocre.
The best creative partnerships happen between artists
Jimmy Iovine treated Brunner like he treats Lady Gaga—relentlessly pushing for more. That mutual respect for craft unlocked Beats' success.
Growth is overrated; reputation is everything
Ammunition has never exceeded 50 people. No business development team. Just relentless quality and relationship-building. That's the moat.
Conversation Outline
00:00 — What industrial design actually is—and why most people have no idea
04:00 — The childhood garage that shaped a creative obsession
10:00 — The door that changed everything: discovering industrial design by accident
18:00 — Starting Lunar Design and the early Silicon Valley design scene
25:00 — Getting hired by Apple—and why he almost turned it down
32:00 — Day one at Apple: "What have I done?"
36:00 — Building Apple's design culture (and why he eventually left)
39:00 — The unexpected call from Pentagram
46:00 — Why Pentagram wasn't the right fit—and starting Ammunition
53:00 — The origin story of Beats by Dre
58:00 — Shifting from service provider to equity partner
1:02:00 — What separates good design from great design
1:06:00 — The role of AI in design—and what will never be replaced
1:16:00 — The counterintuitive belief: creative people can move through time
Robert Brunner
→ Created Beats by Dre — acquired by Apple for $3 billion
→ Former Director of Industrial Design at Apple — hired Jony Ive
→ Partner at Pentagram for 10 years
→ Designed for Ferrari, Square, Polaroid, Adobe
→ Co-founder of Lunar Design
Show Notes & Links
Mentioned In This Episode
→ Apple — where Brunner built the design team and hired Jony Ive
→ Beats by Dre — created by Brunner, sold to Apple for $3B
→ Ammunition Group — Brunner's current design studio
→ Pentagram — where Brunner was partner for 10 years
→ Lunar Design — Brunner's first studio, co-founded in Silicon Valley
→ Jimmy Iovine — music mogul and Beats co-founder
→ Square — payment company, Ammunition client
→ Ferrari — Ammunition client
→ Polaroid — Ammunition client
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